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Slave to Zod

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PostSubject: rules Question   Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:09 pm

OK...

I was talking to Dave sunday about this but I messed up the card in question.

"Myr Propagator" is equipped with a "Basilisk Collar."

If you make a copy of Myr Propagator, does it now make a Myr Propagator token with the Deathtouch and Lifelink abilty attached to it in addition to the copying ability without having the equipment attached to it?

After reading the rules I didn't find anything that stood out to me. Except this:

Most equipment use the terms "get" and "has." On face value I would say if the equipment says "...creature 'gets' +2/+2" then the copy DOES NOT get the benifits. But if the Equipment says "...creature 'has' Lifelink and Deathtouch" then the copy DOES get the benifits.

Gets, to me, means the effect is on the equipment and the equipment is on the creature.

Has, to me, means the effect is on the creature.

ANY thought???

Judge!!!!!
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StormBlade

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PostSubject: Re: rules Question   Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:08 pm

Pretty sure it's only the creature getting copied.
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c4

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PostSubject: Re: rules Question   Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:56 am

I'm about 90% sure just the creature gets copied.
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mikecav

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PostSubject: Re: rules Question   Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:49 am

c4 wrote:
I'm about 90% sure just the creature gets copied.

agreed. I know I havent been in it for a while but I am almost certain that it will only copy the creature.
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knomad56



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PostSubject: Re: rules Question   Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:11 pm

Like I said sunday, when the creature leaves the battlefield, the equipment falls off and any abilities granted by the equipped item dropped off as well. Instead of the creature going to the gy it has the option of going in the vat. That's it. You get a dude, not any extra abilities granted by other cards unless you vat a necrotic ooze and then its only got the abilities of creatures once vat is activated...
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Slave to Zod

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PostSubject: Re: rules Question   Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:39 pm

...and there in lies the problem Dave. (I mixed up Vat and Myr Propagator. I am talking about the myr here). I agree about the graveyard time stamping. Now the question is the copying effect. I understand the equipment is NOT part of the creature but as a great man once said, "...Magic is a game of English."

If the Myr Propagator had counters on it and it is copied the counters don't go with the copy. The counters in a sense are they our item "on" the Myr. With the case with some equipment (HAS vs GET comment in earlier post) the equipment is now saying the creature has the ability.
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knomad56



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PostSubject: Re: rules Question   Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:06 pm

There is no Oracle text for this because its that simple. No. When you copy a creature the copy doesn't gain abilities of the equipment attached at the time. Same as if you had body double or clone come into play... it would only be as a copy of the creature its self.
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barrinmstr

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PostSubject: An attempt to answer the question...   Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:26 pm

Here's a reference for you to check out:

614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c-d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield, continuous effects generated by the resolution of spells or abilities that changed the permanent's characteristics on the stack (see rule 400.7a), and continuous effects from the permanent's own static abilities, but ignoring continuous effects from any other source that would affect it.

That last part there says it all. Ignore continuous effects from any other source that would affect it. Think of it this way, I have a White Knight, I've used Ajani Goldmane"s ability to give him 3 +1 counters, and I have a Crusade out. He is a 6/6 first striker. Clone comes down, and you pick white knight... he hits play as a 2/2. End of story.
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Slave to Zod

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PostSubject: Re: rules Question   Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:10 pm

Yep...that cleared it up! thanx guys.
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barrinmstr

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PostSubject: ;)   Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:14 am

glad I could help.
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